wow... a map with some random crap thrown together obviously without any thought behind it for playability nor graphical design.. add to that the most horrible lighting i've ever seen and a ton of graphical glitches on the map and.. i am amazed..
this competition truly was a joke..
edit:
he didn't even bother to sticky the cars.. they drive around when hit by units or ion storm lightning.. you really didn't test these maps out very much did you? Last edited by Origin on Sat May 08, 2004 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
I think that you need to quit your damned insults Origin. If your going to give critisism make it constructive, I don't know if this is because your swore about making 7th place or what but there is absolutely NO way this comp was in any way rigged or bias. If this continues your posts may be edited or deleted upon arrival so I/we do not have to listen to it. You have been officially warned, please stop. QUICK_EDIT
It really dosent feel that I would won. If you read the news post it seems that Banshee wanted Phonic to win.
"if the categories were only Map Layout, Eye Candy and Playability. However, there is a smaller category called Trigger that gave the advantage to the map Tiber River 2356, from Tesla7zap"
3 categories versus one?
and on top of that, Origins damn posts on how bad the map sucked. I'd like to see your map, If I won and you just came on the 7th place, man your map has to suck hard..... _________________
Tesla - Where positive energy meets negative energy QUICK_EDIT
it didn't suck. i just think it should've been 3rd and not first. it does look like it has some good effort to it tho little thought and sloppy execution (what with the terrain errors and moving cars).
I'm attatching my extremely sucky map to this post. enjoy.
My judgement on FSTiberCrater by Origin (copied straigt from the text file i sent to banshee)
Map 0002
Map Layout: *** Very basic layout with 4 bases, each in a corner, with a lovely Tiberium Pit in the middle. Cliffs, when used, were done very well though.
Eye-Candy: **** Great night setting with a spooky feeling. Lots of tiberium plants. I liked these small civilian outposts, in the middle of terrain ravaged by Tiberium. Nice dirt roads.
Playability: *** Very standard TS gameplay. Equal resources for every player, which is good. It might have been a nice twist to remove those Blossom trees at the players' locations, to make the players battle for the Tiberium pit when later in the game. (That would give the pit actual use)
Triggers: - (No triggers available)
Overall: ***½ A great looking map without any special gameplay twists. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 1:44 pm Post subject:
And Froggy's:
Map 2
L 2
E 2
P 4
O 3
-no real detail
-same start corner on each side (just desert)
-nice tiberium light, but mostly green
-needs more unique building names
-cliffs done well and are detailed
Now, the final score is calculated on the following way:
I tested your map, it was quite good but it was really nothing special about it. One thing I wonder though... How did you put your own names on the buildings? _________________
Tesla - Where positive energy meets negative energy QUICK_EDIT
its symmetrical wich makes it fair. there are tons of details that are not the same. ayway its a high quality map with good terrain well thought out and fair layout good lighting and no gfx errors as oposed to most of the other maps in the competition. if i was a judge i'd give maps with graphical errors 100 minus points cause god its so sloppy and horrible but maybe that's just me.
edit:
oh and its a spaceous map wich allows for room to maneuver and avoids pathfinding problems. the starting areas are very nice and flat and big because that's good for a starting area. the most noob mistake ever in map design is to make too little room and too many obstacles in the starting areas making the place a bitch to build in (a mistake many in the competition did)
froggy calls this lack of detail wich is absurd. the map is highly detailed but built with thought, and room is left in places to enhance gameplay. space was also left just around the crater to allow people to build expansions there later in the game (but as a balancing factor the spots are vulnerable due to adjacent cliffs). for unlike the dvd said, the tiberium in your starting position does run out, even though there are blossom trees. how much did you test this map? 3 minutes? i could go on and on but i won't bore you that much.
so what's my point with all this? do i want the results changed? of course not, I'm not stupid. what i'm trying to say is that quite frankly you guys sawk at judging maps. i know i sound like a bad looser but if i would've been beaten by maps that weren't utter crap i would not have uttered one word. the only maps above mine who seemed to have had any kind of thought behind them was search and trauma. all but 2-3 had severe graphical glitches. few were fair and balanced. and only 2 even tried to make any kind of decent lighting (and one of them, tesla, failed horribly and made the map look horrible instead with his random red spotlights everywhere). many had neutral units wich totally destroys the gameplay (whomever attacks the units is at a disadvantage so noone will and instead they will use air/tunneling units etc. only and ground combat will be at close to zero, this is already a big problem with the gameplay in ts and making it worse through huge neutral settlements and tiberium lifeforms across the map just shows a great lack of thought with the map and its playability.
it all just makes me wonder how you thought when you tested these maps.. you couldn't have taken it very seriously could you? for an example, teslas map has a bridge leading to an abandoned cnc1 base on high ground. he also has the kodiak crashed on an inaccessable low ground corner. both of these are small but obvious examples that he had no thought or plan for the gameplay of his map but merely put out some "cool stuff" here and there. in short, he made zones on his map that no unit will ever travel to because there is nothing there of interest and it leads to nothing of interest, thus simply wasting map space. he wasn't the only one either. someone (i forgot whom) had almost the entire western part of his map totally obsolete. another one most of the northeastern side. you see there is a huge difference between a map that has been carefully planned out and a map where the author is simply trying to make some "cool" landscape and couldn't care less about gameplay. but you judges don't take such things into account do you? you think more along the lines of "oh cool! pretty red lights at random throughout the map!!!!11111one" or am I wrong? this is just how i see it from my perspective.
if i sound like an asshole, i apologise. i really am an ok guy (no, really). I just feel i've been handled really unfairly in this competition wich just hit a switch on me somewhere sending me into bad mood asshole mode QUICK_EDIT
I just feel i've been handled really unfairly in this competition wich just hit a switch on me somewhere sending me into bad mood asshole mode
Yes, you should be send to prison!
You're a bad loser, no matter of what you say, you sound like a map guru but you're really not.
You really try to see the negative thing in EVERYTHING and not a single positive thing, at all.
Edit: Can someone please ban this guy for a week or something til he learns some manners. Me and I think a lot of others is sick of his "My map is the best in the world and it's impossible to have a better map than my map and everybody elses maps are so bad they can be". _________________
Tesla - Where positive energy meets negative energy QUICK_EDIT
Origin, im not going to waste my time quoting parts of your long posts to reply to each seperate complaint but the thing about how things seem random and pointless is because alot the people who were in the top 5 went for REALISM in their maps. And in real life things are not perfect and symmetrical. Dude, making things "more fair" like you said is so easy when every corner is identical but when you have strange uneven terrain it really takes alot of thought to make the starting positions even with their own advantages adn disadvantages QUICK_EDIT
u cannot ban Origin, his map was good and his point is ok, but the fact that his map was bascially 1 quarter of a map mirrored is very RA2ish and not something I for 1 (and im sure many others like) i think in future you u should make your maps non-symetrical and they would be much much better.
Origin do u play Tiberian Sun Retro.????
Cause there is a TSR map competition comming up shorrtly with many new terrain features that will be included which will add much effect to maps
I would love to see you partatake in this map comp but not make such a symetrical map, and make it more exciting an random _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Location: Laughing at Donald Trump in a rather flat place
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject:
Orgin, your'e map was good, but the layout was kinda boring 'cause it was symetrical. _________________ Tiberian Station
Image guy on the Dune Sun\
- Peace - Through - Wossname - QUICK_EDIT
And Origin, negative criticism doesnt take anyone anywhere. I know you are pissed off because your map wasnt the 1st place, but we are all here to learn, not to fight against each other. Next time, try making a map less symetrical and with more details and you will have more chances to get a better score and maybe win and also... do not underestimate other people here... Tesla7zap showed he has some great mapping making skills and deserved the victory. His map really ownz. _________________
Mods, Mods Support, Public Researchs, Map Archives, Tutorials, A Friendly Community and much more. Check it out now! QUICK_EDIT
im not pissed off because my map wasn't first. im pissed off because it got a lower score than some really horrible maps while not being a horrible map at all (but aparently in this part of the world a semi-symetrical map is horrible).
oh and tesla. i admited it already no? no need to rub it in
i still think i do have some very good points. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:25 pm Post subject:
we will not change any rating. If your map didnt scored what you expected, try learning with your mistakes instead of criticising everyone else's map. _________________
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i thought i said i didnt want anything changed.
and i did nothing wrong with the map so no mistakes to learn from there. i guess my only mistake was to think this competition would be anything worth nothing. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:55 pm Post subject:
mappers are not perfect. They always commit mistakes. Dont be blind to think you own the truth... that might be the kind of map you like, but it doesnt mean that everybody thinks like you... The Map Layout and the Eye Candy category are certainly affected by the element realism... _________________
Mods, Mods Support, Public Researchs, Map Archives, Tutorials, A Friendly Community and much more. Check it out now! QUICK_EDIT
yes but that is an opinion. from all technical aspects my map was perfect or close to it. hence no mistakes made. i guess i just picked the wrong style oops! too bad you didnt say so in the rules.. semi-symetrical maps will receive bad ratings!!! warning warning!!! QUICK_EDIT
I have a question. Did the judges actually play each map before rating them? I think that would be the only fair way to give a valid opinion. After all, the maps are meant to be played, no? QUICK_EDIT
oh well im gonna stop now. i just wanted to have it said. now it's said and you dont seem to take anything to heart but oh well. i can understand it seeing the way i acted. try to look past my asshole'ish ways tho and look at my arguments and maybe you will be suprised. have a nice day. QUICK_EDIT
Well, random terrain detailing is not too difficult, i also use it in my maps just to fill space, but TS's possibility's for terrain are limited, so as with any TS map you see similar stuff everywhere.. not your fault though
Origin wrote:
anyway its a high quality map
Thanks for removing the need to judge
Origin wrote:
with good terrain
The tiberium pit looks good, yes, but the terrain around it is flat and boring..
Origin wrote:
well thought out and fair layout
Like i said the basic layout is very simple but the Tiberium pit is better
. It doesn't have any use though as there's plenty tiberium at the bases.. and you said they do run out. Well here they don't, unless i use more than 10 harvesters ??
Origin wrote:
good lighting and no gfx errors as oposed to most of the other maps in the competition.
While i think the lighting is indeed nice, it's nothing special. You DO have a point though with the terrain errors, you map doesn't have any as far as i've seen, as opposed to certain other maps..
Origin wrote:
if i was a judge i'd give maps with graphical errors 100 minus points cause god its so sloppy and horrible but maybe that's just me.
That's indeed just you.
Origin wrote:
oh and its a spaceous map wich allows for room to maneuver and avoids pathfinding problems.
I've made very complex maps that don't have any pathfinding problems so this is BS... and room to maneuver is not necessarily a good thing...
Origin wrote:
the starting areas are very nice and flat and big because that's good for a starting area.
Again, a personal opinion, i agree the space should be too small (like in Wes.com's map, but it does add a special twist when done right.
Origin wrote:
the most noob mistake ever in map design is to make too little room and too many obstacles in the starting areas making the place a bitch to build in (a mistake many in the competition did)
Oh, the mapping god declares this a 'mistake'?? Come on, by your logic all maps should be symmetrial plains...
Origin wrote:
froggy calls this lack of detail wich is absurd. the map is highly detailed but built with thought, and room is left in places to enhance gameplay. space was also left just around the crater to allow people to build expansions there later in the game (but as a balancing factor the spots are vulnerable due to adjacent cliffs).
I agree with this although there could be some nice stuff near the borders of the player area but i'm nitpicking..
Origin wrote:
for unlike the dvd said, the tiberium in your starting position does run out, even though there are blossom trees. how much did you test this map? 3 minutes? i could go on and on but i won't bore you that much.
I would need more about 10 harvs to make it run out..
Origin wrote:
so what's my point with all this?
Good question...
Origin wrote:
and only 2 even tried to make any kind of decent lighting
what a nonsense, There where tons of maps with good lighting, Dad a Tude's map and Wes.coms, map and Tratos' map...
Origin wrote:
(and one of them, tesla, failed horribly and made the map look horrible instead with his random red spotlights everywhere).
I didn't like those either, they looked too artificial but it's a nitpit, calling it horrible doesn't make people take you too serious..
Origin wrote:
many had neutral units wich totally destroys the gameplay (whomever attacks the units is at a disadvantage so noone will and instead they will use air/tunneling units etc. only and ground combat will be at close to zero, this is already a big problem with the gameplay in ts and making it worse through huge neutral settlements and tiberium lifeforms across the map just shows a great lack of thought with the map and its playability.
Ok, this is COMPLETE CRAP. Why on earth do you think these civilian units and settlement are there????
And besides, are these so powerful? they're just infanty, i can easily beat all infantry on Changed Tacticts with two disruptors..
Also it's fun to kill them and makes for a realistic and varied look.
Origin wrote:
it all just makes me wonder how you thought when you tested these maps.. you couldn't have taken it very seriously could you? for an example, teslas map has a bridge leading to an abandoned cnc1 base on high ground. he also has the kodiak crashed on an inaccessable low ground corner. both of these are small but obvious examples that he had no thought or plan for the gameplay of his map but merely put out some "cool stuff" here and there. in short, he made zones on his map that no unit will ever travel to because there is nothing there of interest and it leads to nothing of interest, thus simply wasting map space.
I guess he wanted to fill up empty space. Is that a problem? And yes, the corner are not used but your map's corners are because that's where the bases are....
Origin wrote:
he wasn't the only one either. someone (i forgot whom) had almost the entire western part of his map totally obsolete. another one most of the northeastern side.
That's called a realistic environment...And it's better than nothing, right? I'm referring to the inter-base space of your map here, partially.
Origin wrote:
you see there is a huge difference between a map that has been carefully planned out and a map where the author is simply trying to make some "cool" landscape and couldn't care less about gameplay.
If you desperately want ultrafair gameplay that's always the same, yes then we need 'carefully planned maps' (just four bases in a corner and tib in the middle)... sorry but i'd like to see every map have differences in look, like all people do unless you're a cyborg or something.
Origin wrote:
but you judges don't take such things into account do you?
No, we never mentioned any gameplay aspect at all in our reviews...
Origin wrote:
you think more along the lines of "oh cool! pretty red lights at random throughout the map!!!!11111one" or am I wrong? this is just how i see it from my perspective.
when placed right they are not at random at will create a so-called atmosphere that is different for every map.
[quote="Origin]"if i sound like an asshole, i apologise. i really am an ok guy (no, really). [/quote]
Luckiliy i'm old enough to understand there's a nice person in everyone, but you just made a baaad entry at PPM..
Origin wrote:
I just feel i've been handled really unfairly in this competition wich just hit a switch on me somewhere sending me into bad mood asshole mode
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