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modding campaign impossible?!
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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject:  modding campaign impossible?! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have created a test map with a clean tiberian sun. In this test map there is only 1 change. I have added taskforce script team trigger so that there should be a rocket infantry spawning at waypoint 33 then walk to waypont 34 then attack any building. the trigger is set to 8 any event.

I have cautiously made clear that I followed the tutorial.

My guess is that there is something, some setting, some AI stuff or some other curse that is preventing any modification of the campaign. what does work is plaster the whole map with stuff, such as infantry then giving them by double clicking them an order such as hunt. In the nod mission 2 however adding anything will make the mission start with You Have Lost.

here's the test file its the first nod mission with the change described above. again this map and the tiberian sun used for testing never had any contact with my mod or tibed or something else apart the fs map editor and the xcc utilities.

if someone has a clue I'd appreciate it, and I guess others who think about touching the campaign too.



nod1a.map
 Description:

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 Filename:  nod1a.map
 Filesize:  79.79 KB
 Downloaded:  39 Time(s)


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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

holy ztype after 3 days I finally found out what the curse was. After giving the AI a powerplant and a hand of nod and setting its IQ to 5 and techlevel 10 and money I finally got it to ztyping carry out that script and trigger that god damn ztyping rocket guy.

Also found out by giving the player house IQ of 1 the ai will play for the player but only do the repairing. So the player no longer has to click on the wrench icon to repair his stuff, its now on auto repair. Only problem that could come up with this is some maps with limited money and a damaged building getting auto repaired but I can't think of such a mission... wow it finally works.

why the other teams work which westwood created is still obscure to me. gotta be something within the team settings, something about recruitment and autocreate or so not matching the needed settings for stuff randomly spawning. edit: apparently that ain't the case. god damn piece a shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTxUKRkOoHM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KnuWjHt9u4

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m7
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Joined: 17 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why is this in the research center?

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

someone moved it there probably. created it under maps. quite sure I did.

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Orac
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No moderator would move a thread such as this in to Research.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

\moved to mapping discussion

I'm quite sure I've seen it yesterday in the mapping forum too (I would have surely noticed if it was in research forum).

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the newest discovery is really weird. when under trigger events its set to Building Exists the team will get created when the player clicks on the sidebar on the building eg when he orders its production instead of when the building exists...

Also enabling all AItriggers was a big mistake, seems like this can not be reversed and leads to the AI creating endless amounts of E1 when it has only barracks.

when the ai has multiple barracks the infantry comes out of different barracks instead out of a primary one, does not have to do with building being too fast than the unit exiting. The ai teams are also weird, set it to 3 E1 and 1 E3 yet the ai produces 3 E1 and 2 E3.

damn modding these maps is like a minefield. I'll document all those odds and discoveries, maybe it will help others. odd trickery lies everywhere.

seems like most odds of the first nod mission are solved, once I finished the map I'll release it maybe. Then its up to the next one nod2a which also holds some serious problems. has to be the winning conditions letting the player lose when something is added.

edit: ah now I know. multiplefactories are enabled so it does speed up the AI production. somehow the faster buildspeed messes up the ai so that it builds more units than it should. or at least its what I suspect. maybe has to do with the ai producing endless units and checking for how many are around, there are more units coming out before it can check how many there are, or something like that. devilish trickery. gotta slow down the ai buildspeed to compensate that with the ini edits.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There's a new minor odity that I discovered in nod3b. The sandbags placed by westwood are not sandbags, they're something else. This may be that the map editor not being official misreads these pre existing sandbags. Those WW sandbags can not be deleted, and when i did they were still there and blocking infantry but vehicles could drive throgh them without the "crushing sandbags bumping and sound" and the bags where still there blocking inf.

Seeing how numerous triggers can misfunction out of nowhere for no reason understandable to me I get the impression that the map editor may have some problems with reading maps made by westwood so that not everything is guaranteed to work out flawlessly.

That sandbags are somehow a terrain instead of a building or some hybrid or wall or whatnot probably has something to do with it.

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RP
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have several impressions of you too, but you don't hear me brag about it...

The map editor is perfectly capable of reading triggers, and anything related to them.
IIRC LKO said something about the map editor not being able to place proper ice tiles on maps, so they wouldn't grow in-game.
Have you tried removing the 'sandbags' with overlay deletion tool, or just delete object?

EDIT: Are you talking about the sandbags in the bottem left corner? If so, they are perfectly visible to me, the map editor even shows it's "Sandbags" overlay, so clearly the fuck-up is on your end.

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Crimsonum
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RP wrote:
IIRC LKO said something about the map editor not being able to place proper ice tiles on maps, so they wouldn't grow in-game.


This is correct, and the only work-around, as far as I'm aware, is to C&P parts from official maps.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RP wrote:
Have you tried removing the 'sandbags' with overlay deletion tool, or just delete object?

perfectly visible to me, the map editor even shows it's "Sandbags" overlay, so clearly the fuck-up is on your end.


overlay deletion tool should work out. will try, only used the delete object since it worked on sandbags placed by me.

what ztype up? there is no ztype up, not being aware of deleting something with some other tool is hardly a ztype up. But thanks, and also thanks for keeping your fucked up impression to yourself.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if i would be admin, you'd get an instant warning for becoming personal in such bad manners on a completely neutral reply.

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And then I was told to stop calling him Butthead. Tho I'd so see a topic where he isn't acting like an asshole.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
on a completely neutral reply.


Quote:
I have several impressions of you too, but you don't hear me brag about it...


completely neutral. yea.


And as for you Dilach. You vermin who shows up everywhere I post for no valid reason. If your penis would be as big as your ego you'd shove it up your own ass repeatedly.

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Orac
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OrangeNero, there is a saying;

"you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."*


Perhaps the animosity towards you is a result of something about you, rather than about the people attacking you?  Maybe you're just not easy to get along with?

*From Justified: Season 4, Episode 1.  It was a good season, and it started strong.

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OrangeNero
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Justified is an American television drama series.

nah its just some people being a drama whore seeking drama wherever they can find it. Or what is your purpose in this thread?

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RP
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The reason why I said that is because you don't seem to fully understand how the map editor works.

I mean, you say something about sandbags that are not sandbags (but they are definitely overlay, trust me), and you say you cannot delete them with the map editor. Clearly you haven't educated yourself properly with regards to the editor, as overlay can be deleted from Special / Overlay -> Erase Overlay.

You say the triggers malfunction out of nowhere, only because you loaded a presumably official WW mission map, but that's bogus. From the all the Westood maps I have opened and edited in the past, there is none that malfunctioned in-game. The only way that happens is if I made a mistake in a trigger, it's very likely you did the same thing (a common human error).

Perhaps you didn't notice it, which is possible. Sometimes I too mess up in a trigger, like forgetting to add a value to a parameter. Game crashes, and I trace my steps back to the triggers I added since the last time I played on the map.

So, were you talking about those sandbags in the bottem-left corner of the map?
Do you have modified INI files in your directory which may cause the editor/game to display items incorrectly or crash?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OrangeNero wrote:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
on a completely neutral reply.


Quote:
I have several impressions of you too, but you don't hear me brag about it...


completely neutral. yea.

That sentence could be also understood positive: like "i've heard many good things about you, but i don't brag about them".
Having an opinion/impression about someone else is normal and RP only wrote that. He nowhere wrote that he has a bad impression of you and definitely hasn't used any accusations.
It's you who interpreted something bad in that and it was you who became personal using the f word.

In fact he even helped you with your topic, yet you haven't had the courtesy of thanking him or confessed your mistake. No, instead you attacked him.

My advice: Grow up kid!


@GD: it isn't helping to pour oil in the fire. Just let this kid behave as he does, we'll observe this and try to stay calm and neutral. When he then shows such bad manners again, it is simple to ban him without others being dragged into this too. (I wouldn't like to see others getting banned too, just because they let themselves provoked and reduced to his niveau)

@RP: thanks for the objective and clear response. That's how i like it. Smile

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

In fact he even helped you with your topic, yet you haven't had the courtesy of thanking him or confessed your mistake. No, instead you attacked him.


I clearly said thanks can't help you when your reading comprehension fails. Even thanked him for keeping his impression of me for himself, as if it wouldn't have been a fucked up one.

Quote:
"i've heard many good things about you, but i don't brag about them".

Yea thats most likely the case. Even if it was he still accuses me of bragging around. Here's my advice for you. Learn to read you dumb kid and go live in your utopia.

Now you all can do us all a favor and stop it with this useless offtopic discussion.

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4StarGeneral
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This feels like every other thread.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

campaign mapping continues

I had sort of a break through with the triggers malfunctioning. The AI in skirmish would get stuck when it would build a taskforce while already building one. It figures that triggers in SP missions got the same issue. As such pretty much every trigger can malfunction when another one disturbs it. Since i wanted to increase the amount of triggers quite drastically I probably will have to change plans.

I can only hope that triggers which spawn units are not affected by this, I until now used triggers which make the AI create teams. It was pretty amazing to get the Nod base surrounded and more attacks coming in with each new building. Retaliation forces coming when ou destroy an outpost and so on. It felt almost human and already better than most I have seen in C&C missions so far.

What also messes up the AI is "Build Activity %" under Houses. 50% seems to be the best value to get it to create the teams without going nuts and sending endless waves of wrong taskforces.

Maybe creating multiple houses could solve this like WW has done it seeing there being Hassan1 2 3.

The second mission is being a real twat. Due to some reason now when I destroy all factories of the first base the second base sells all its stuff and they join and attack with all they got. 2 different houses somehow linked together. At this rate I might not even make it till christmas.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I decided to tell the campaign to sincerely go ztype itself.
The map editor is a crashy piece of shit.
The AI is a buggy piece of shit.
The game is full with weird ass piece of shit.
I have to work at every mission for over 20 hours because every single little change has a huge chance to ztype the whole thing up so I have to test run every single change ztype this.

The 3 sort of finished campaign missions for nod will be released with the mod together, they are playable but far from what could have been and also what it was since the shit decides to crash at me now for no apparent reason so I had to roll back about 10 hours of work.

If someone with experience at creating missions wants to join in, you are welcome. Alone I am not gonna do the campaign anymore.

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