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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:22 pm    Post subject:  Feedback Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello everyone! Today I finally decided to create an account to give some feedback of this fantastic mod. I've also been lurking around for a while never bothering to register. This first post won't be too long since I'm on mobile currently but prepare your anus for possible wall of text once I get back to my computer! :3

One quick thing I want to say is that I've tried the last nod mission "the finale" and also the skirmish version and they are both amazing but have horrible performance issues. I imagine due to the size of the map and because of the abundance of props and units everywhere. My computer is a good gaming pc but it wouldn't really matter if I had a shitty one anyways since the game engine is somewhat old. Is there a possible fix for this horrible performance or will we have to suck it up?

Anyways, glad to meet everyone here, be it newcomers or the old dogs.
To the gentlemen that have worked on this mod for years, you've done great and have created the greatest TS mod of all time.  Very Happy

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Martin Killer
Missile Trooper


Joined: 27 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Agree, the performance issues in Nod Final are so big, that mission becomes very quickly completely unplayable, even if you have an i5 CPU.

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Vulture
AA Infantry


Joined: 08 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, tested a Skirmish round in The Finale and it has a horrible performance. Horrible enough to shut it down after ten minutes.

I have an AMD 8-core processor and 8 GB RAM, so if that isn't sufficient I don't know what is.

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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is there a possible fix? Maybe optimize it by decreasing map size or perhaps remove a good amount of props?

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We are going to try our best to optimize the mission and we're sorry that the performance issue is effecting a lot of you more than we initially expected. We'll do what we can.

Gameplay over graphics is the most important thing at the end of the day, it's just a shame because Q45 spent an excrutiatingly long time on that map only for it to result in problematic performance. In any case, thank you for your input and welcome to the forum.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Vulture wrote:
I have an AMD 8-core processor and 8 GB RAM, so if that isn't sufficient I don't know what is.

Tiberian Sun is strictly single-threaded, so you'd get significantly better performance on any modern Intel desktop CPU (including the low-end dual core Haswell-based Pentiums) than with the 8-core AMD FX CPU. The game utilizes only one CPU core.

But yeah, the performance is unacceptable. I personally have an overclocked AMD Phenom II, and while the rest of the game works fairly smoothly (60 FPS) in any situation, in The Finale I get like something like 25 FPS. I don't find it fun to play at that speed. The map is beautiful to look at though.

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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alright, now that im back at home, time for a wall o' feedback!


The mobile sensor and NOD radar detection noise is rather annoying especially when your base is close to the enemy and you get constant beeping.

Why was the hovvee price increased? It already cant beat NOD's counterpart in a 1v1. Isnt the whole GDI thing stronger, slower units?

A kazuar walker will destroy a hovvee in a 1v1 but will also get destroyed. The only advantage of the hovvee is hover and anti air but the missiles rarely hit aircraft. (I suggest to reduce the kazuar health abit and increase the hovvee's health if the price will remain what it is currently.)

Aircraft now feel in a good spot. The new ones are awesome!

Spider web fence are mostly useless.

Need more maps with Globotech structures!  Very Happy

There needs to be a transport aircraft (infantry) for both NOD and GDI in TI timeline. Why is it that they didnt upgrade TW1 transport helicopters or create a new version for transport? Sure GDI gets the carryall but its annoying to spend lotsa money to build both an apc and carryall to just transport cheap infantry.

The new GDI tech center is sexy! Is it possible to make it act as a airpad like how the uplink center acts as a radar. Perhaps increase the tech center's price to 3000?

Why was the idea of GDI getting a powerplant upgrade scrapped when PB5 released?

Airpads cost too much, they enemy can build defences that are much cheaper and almost nearly removes the point of having aircraft. A reduction of price (maybe 600-700) might be good.

Firestorm wall still useless.

Light posts could be a bit brighter.

Light posts should change color depending of your color.

Marauders are not cost affective. Anything anti infantry will wreck them and they're usually cheaper than a single marauder.

Marauders should not take damage when going over tiberium. (they're hovering above them, duh.)

Why are toxin trucks only available when you capture a GDI MCV?
There could be a structure (Toxic waste dump?) that when harvesters dock at refineries, a small bar on the waste dump fills and once it is full, you can build a toxin truck?

Could it be possible to have an option to disable ion storms completely? (with maps that have them)


Well that's it for now, will continue later!

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The mobile sensor and NOD radar detection noise is rather annoying especially when your base is close to the enemy and you get constant beeping.


Agreed, I've been meaning to do something about that for a while, it will be in the next patch.

Quote:
Why was the hovvee price increased? It already cant beat NOD's counterpart in a 1v1. Isnt the whole GDI thing stronger, slower units?

A kazuar walker will destroy a hovvee in a 1v1 but will also get destroyed. The only advantage of the hovvee is hover and anti air but the missiles rarely hit aircraft. (I suggest to reduce the kazuar health abit and increase the hovvee's health if the price will remain what it is currently.)


The "GDI Thing" is something I consider to be imbalanced in Tiberian Sun and we didn't want to port such imbalance over to Twisted Insurrection. While I agree with what you're saying somewhat, doing the whole "slower but more powerful" thing can still make games feel one-sided, besides, GDI has some raider units somewhere down the C&C timeline, the Pitbull comes to mind, though I hated it. #Tongue

HovVees had a price increase because they can be extremely effective early units, especially on maps with lots of water surrounding your base (Pig of Bays, namely). We have tested this unit for a while and rather than making it usless by decreasing it's armour or power even more, a price increase seemed like a better option.
Kazuars were also taken into this equation and had their damage to structures and heavier vehicles reduced being as they are also early game units that could prove to be too effective, I don't think reducing their health is a good option, honestly, if anything, I think they need a little more, but we'll do some more balance testing.

Quote:
Aircraft now feel in a good spot. The new ones are awesome!


I'm glad you think so, Nod definitely needed the buff to the Hornet.

Quote:
Spider web fence are mostly useless.


I think it's a little unfair to suggest that they are "useless", they're mostly Laser Fence Posts but with the ability to defend themselves and move anywhere on the map with it's subterranean abilities. These units are not designed for attacking, they're more or less defensive units/structures.

Quote:
Need more maps with Globotech structures!


In the future, certainly. Wouldn't hurt to get some more experienced mappers on the team, but they are rare these days it seems.

Quote:
There needs to be a transport aircraft (infantry) for both NOD and GDI in TI timeline. Why is it that they didnt upgrade TW1 transport helicopters or create a new version for transport? Sure GDI gets the carryall but its annoying to spend lotsa money to build both an apc and carryall to just transport cheap infantry.


We've thought about recreating the Orca Transport for this purpose in GDI's case, and that option is still on the cards being as the air-transport logic was finally fixed. In Nod's case however, air transports can feel a little redundant being as Termite APC's can essentially get anywhere on the map that isn't paved over... then again, I can see why that would open up an opportunity to create an airbourne transport for Nod too.

Long story short, the card is on the table, it's a possibility that both factions will get air transports, Chinooks are available to both sides in Twisted Dawn mode in any case.

Quote:
The new GDI tech center is sexy! Is it possible to make it act as a airpad like how the uplink center acts as a radar. Perhaps increase the tech center's price to 3000?


I'm afraid it's not an option to be honest, besides, that landing pad is far too small.

Quote:
Why was the idea of GDI getting a power plant upgrade scrapped when PB5 released?


Because we (well, some of us) feel that having too many upgrades in the sidebar is cluttery when they're not really essential additions, it's also one way for us to separate the style of game-play for GDI and Nod a little more, their bigger, heavier and more efficient power plants to keep up with the large usage drain that their structures produce seemed to suit their style. We're not overly certain if this was a good change or not, so feedback and thoughts are welcomed, but we don't want to overdo it with upgrades. Tiberian Sun was bad enough for that.

Quote:
Airpads cost too much, they enemy can build defences that are much cheaper and almost nearly removes the point of having aircraft. A reduction of price (maybe 600-700) might be good.


The cost of air pads was done to stop aircraft from being spammed horrendously quickly once the player had acquired more than 3. Increasing the cost of Airpads and boosting their strength in the process was our idea to combat this problem, since our Aircraft Factory* idea hasn't proven to work out just yet.

*A structure that controls the rate of which aircraft are produced rather than the Helipads.

Quote:
Firestorm wall still useless.


Sorry, but I disagree. It depends on how you're using it.

Quote:
1 - Light posts could be a bit brighter.

2 - Light posts should change color depending of your color.


Assuming you're refering to the light posts you are given with Base Props enabled:

1 - I thought about it, I might up their brightness for the next patch.

2 - Impossible.

Quote:
Marauders are not cost affective. Anything anti infantry will wreck them and they're usually cheaper than a single marauder.


They are very effective units in a lot of situations, cost effectiveness however I think you may be right. I'll see if a cost decrease is necessary, which it likely will be since I don't plan on making their anti-infantry weapon stronger.

Quote:
Marauders should not take damage when going over tiberium. (they're hovering above them, duh.)


Valid point. Noted.

Quote:
Why are toxin trucks only available when you capture a GDI MCV?
There could be a structure (Toxic waste dump?) that when harvesters dock at refineries, a small bar on the waste dump fills and once it is full, you can build a toxin truck?


Congratulations, you discovered a hidden unit. Razz The Toxin Truck is a unit from TI's early years, originally Nod could build both the Demolition Drone and the Toxin Truck, but their roles pretty much clash and we went in favour of the Drone being as the Toxin Truck was considered the "more powerful" unit. I like the Toxin Truck however, and rather than limiting it to a campaign only asset I thought it would be a nice idea to throw in some extra units as hidden ones that can be acquired in certain situations.

Note: The Toxin Truck is acquired when a Nod player owns a Nod Tech Center and a GDI Tech Center, not just the GDI MCV. GDI also has a hidden unit once they have a GDI Tech Center and a Nod Tech Center.

Quote:
Could it be possible to have an option to disable ion storms completely? (with maps that have them)


Uh, aside from campaign missions, there aren't any maps that should still have Ion Storms on them being as now there is an option to enable them on any map you desire instead. If you have discovered a map that has Ion Storms without the option being enabled, let me know and I'll fix it.


Thank you for your extensive feedback. We will take note of your input. Smile

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aro ninja'd me, but I'll add some additional info to some points.

PlasmaFyre wrote:
Why was the hovvee price increased? It already cant beat NOD's counterpart in a 1v1.

The Hovvee was overpowered previously. The Nod counterpart for the Hovvee is the Scorpion tank, and in internal balance testing we found that the Hovvee and the Scorpion tank are even 1v1 (meaning that they need to be priced similarly). The Hovvee is a hovering unit, but the Scorpion can crush infantry.

PlasmaFyre wrote:
A kazuar walker will destroy a hovvee in a 1v1 but will also get destroyed. The only advantage of the hovvee is hover and anti air but the missiles rarely hit aircraft.

The Hovvee is significantly faster, and hovering is a huge advantage, especially against human players (you can use the Hovvee to do surprise attacks from water routes). Against the AI the hovering advantage is often difficult to utilize, because unlike human players, the AI has the funds for setting up defenses all around their base. In games against human players, the Hovvee is a very popular early rushing unit due to its speed and hover capabilities.

PlasmaFyre wrote:
Firestorm wall still useless.

Firestorm indeed is useless most of the time, but if you manage to create a nice defensive wall with it, it can be very difficult to break past it. Stronger Firestorm walls would also encourage players to camp, which wouldn't be good for gameplay.

PlasmaFyre wrote:
Marauders are not cost affective. Anything anti infantry will wreck them and they're usually cheaper than a single marauder.

Marauders are very powerful against tanks, however. They follow the usual rock-paper-scissors RTS balancing; use Marauders against the enemy's main battle tanks, but protect them from anti-infantry (including the enemy's light infantry).

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Vulture
AA Infantry


Joined: 08 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't agree about your comments about the balance (Kazuar vs Hov'vee, Marauder versus Infantry and Aircraft costs.)


Kazuar vs Hov'vee:
The Kazuar used to be a great deal faster than it currently is, but that caused its walking animation to bug out if it captured a Speed crate and Veterancy, so they slowed it down, and improved their warhead to compensate.

The Hov'vee is one of the fastest ground units (if not the fastest) within the game, but sacrifices armor for its speed, whereas the Kazuar fits the more traditional GDI philosophy you mentioned.
As such, the Kazuar obviously beats it.

Marauders versus Infantry:
You don't use Marauders versus infantry, but against opposing heavy vehicles which they beat 1v1, like Eclipses, without being as hazardous as Grenadiers. Ofcourse they are not cost-effective versus infantry, but you are meant to pit them against Cyborgs and tanks and leave the infantry to Kazuars and Scatterpacks.

That being said, Grenadiers are usually more cost-efficient regardless, so there is that I guess.

Aircraft versus defence prices:
You just don't use aircraft against unmoving AA defences. Aircraft are meant to strike where your opponent does not expect it (read: where there are no sufficient anti-air defences).

The AI covers its base generally far better with AA structures than humans do but you can still target the ground forces heading towards your base, for example, especially on larger maps.

Edit: Ninja'd twice.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aro wrote:
Gameplay over graphics is the most important thing at the end of the day, it's just a shame because Q45 spent an excrutiatingly long time on that map only for it to result in problematic performance.

4705 structures on a map can do that Razz

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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, thanks for the fast replies!



Quote:
HovVees had a price increase because they can be extremely effective early units, especially on maps with lots of water surrounding your base (Pig of Bays, namely). We have tested this unit for a while and rather than making it usless by decreasing it's armour or power even more, a price increase seemed like a better option.


What about the hovvee's missiles? They seem to rarely hit aircraft and explode before.


Quote:
I'm glad you think so, Nod definitely needed the buff to the Hornet.


Agreed.

Quote:
We've thought about recreating the Orca Transport for this purpose in GDI's case, and that option is still on the cards being as the air-transport logic was finally fixed. In Nod's case however, air transports can feel a little redundant being as Termite APC's can essentially get anywhere on the map that isn't paved over... then again, I can see why that would open up an opportunity to create an airbourne transport for Nod too.


Oh right, completely forgot about NOD's sub apc!
GDI having a better air transport would make lots of sense since they have superior aircraft.


Quote:
The cost of air pads was done to stop aircraft from being spammed horrendously quickly once the player had acquired more than 3. Increasing the cost of Airpads and boosting their strength in the process was our idea to combat this problem, since our Aircraft Factory* idea hasn't proven to work out just yet.


Never thought of that.


Quote:
Firestorm wall still useless.

Sorry, but I disagree. It depends on how you're using it.


Ok, ok, i was maybe a bit too harsh. They're mostly annoying in campaign missions.  #Mad I still think they're a tad useless because the situation to use them are slim and it is better for an area of flat ground.


Quote:
Assuming you're refering to the light posts you are given with Base Props enabled:


Yup, btw i do love the light towers. Pimpin' up mah bases! Very Happy


Quote:
They are very effective units in a lot of situations, cost effectiveness however I think you may be right. I'll see if a cost decrease is necessary, which it likely will be since I don't plan on making their anti-infantry weapon stronger.


They are great, but i find the situations of usefulness to be not often. I find them best when you're against a human because it can be devastating if you dont spot them. I also feel like they die too quickly. Do they have the same health as stantard infantry?

Quote:
Marauders should not take damage when going over tiberium. (they're hovering above them, duh.)

Valid point. Noted.


Just realized tho, what if they are standing still?


Quote:
Note: The Toxin Truck is acquired when a Nod player owns a Nod Tech Center and a GDI Tech Center, not just the GDI MCV. GDI also has a hidden unit once they have a GDI Tech Center and a Nod Tech Center.


Really? Surprised Time to find out!  

Edit: Its just the old GDI commando. I remember building him and not knowing why i had the option.

Quote:
Uh, aside from campaign missions, there aren't any maps that should still have Ion Storms on them being as now there is an option to enable them on any map you desire instead. If you have discovered a map that has Ion Storms without the option being enabled, let me know and I'll fix it.


The only map i noticed it on was the new globotech water arena.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
What about the hovvee's missiles? They seem to rarely hit aircraft and explode before.


We'll sort this problem out in the next update too.

Quote:
Just realized tho, what if they are standing still?


They're getting an image change soon anyway. The JJ boosters just suited the unit for the mean time.

Quote:

Edit: Its just the old GDI commando. I remember building him and not knowing why i had the option.


Yeah, I guess it's a little mediocre compared to Nod's Toxin Truck. A new vehicle might be necessary.

Quote:
The only map i noticed it on was the new globotech water arena


God damn it, Crimsonum. Laughing This will be changed in the next update.

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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Yeah, I guess it's a little mediocre compared to Nod's Toxin Truck. A new vehicle might be necessary.


Maybe a new infantry unit may be in order. There could be an exosuit infantry like the commando. It would make sense since GDI would have stolen NOD cyborg stuff and could use those concepts to make a exosuit. I would e completely fine if this "heavy infantry" kept the shotgun but with maybe lowered damage so they aren't too OP.

On the topic of a new GDI vehicle, I find that they could use some kind of heavier tank (but not like the mammoth walker). The current Goliath costs more than a eclipse and will have the tiniest amount of health left in a 1v1. Maybe a double barreled Goliath with slightly more armor and significantly slower? But at the same time there might not be much of a point to it since you can build railgun tanks. Maybe this new tank would be unlocked with the tech center and all railgun tech could be unlocked via an attachment to the tech center or a completely different building? (Railgun center? Maybe the firestorm gen?)

Might seem like this has been suggested before or doesn't really fit the game at all but just my 2 cents.

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ErastusMercy
Energy Commando


Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey, welcome to PPM and thanks for your input.

PlasmaFyre wrote:
On the topic of a new GDI vehicle, I find that they could use some kind of heavier tank (but not like the mammoth walker).


Hum I dunno, does GDI really needs another heavy tank? Goliath/Railgun Platform combos can be pretty devastating if done right. Especially if they're supported by APCs and Skatterpacks.  After all the idea is to use a variety of units rather than rely on one sort to win the day right?

PlasmaFyre wrote:
Maybe a double barreled Goliath with slightly more armor and significantly slower?


The Goliath actually does have two barrels they're over and under rather than side by side, the idea is that they're watered down mass produced mammoth tanks. However, the way it's been coded it only fires one at a time, I guess that was for balance.
http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/318/317598/TI_Goliath_Promo_Sheet.png

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Aro wrote:
You sir. Are awesome.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aro wrote:
God damn it, Crimsonum. Laughing This will be changed in the next update.


Does selecting the lobby option enable the trigger or make a completely new one to the map? Because mine wasn't just a plain trigger that enabled and disables the storm, but it also altered the ambient lighting (by making it darker as the storm approaches and brighter when it abates). It would be a shame to lose this cool lighting effect.

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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The Goliath actually does have two barrels they're over and under rather than side by side, the idea is that they're watered down mass produced mammoth tanks. However, the way it's been coded it only fires one at a time, I guess that was for balance.
http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/318/317598/TI_Goliath_Promo_Sheet.png


Interesting, sadly I can't look at the picture because my school has blocked ModDB because "file sharing".   Confused

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread




TI_Goliath_Promo_Sheet.png
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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah interesting, I see by what you meant with the 2 barrels. I must admit, the Goliath is much sexier than what we can see in game.

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Holy_Master
Commander


Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

while i like design of this tank IMO his in game detail look too busy to make him look good.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wonder why it still has those stabilizers / deployers on the sides as that function has been scrapped ages ago #Tongue

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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Moar feedback!  Very Happy

Laser turrets really suck. The Vulcan tower does a much better job at both at anti tank and anti infantry. I understand that NOD gets the amazing obelisk but still. The laser turrets can dispatch most tier 1 vehicles if they're not in a greater number than 2.

Snipers are really strong. A few of them grouped with goliaths are you're good to go (not against air tho) since NOD has inferior tanks and if they try to spam infantry they'll get sniped. I find that snipers already have a slow enough speed and a good price but has anybody thought of the sniper having a possible chance of missing? Sorta how the scatterpack's bullets go everywhere, could it be possible to allow this logic for the sniper's single bullet? Like a 20% chance of missing and the bullet still lands fairly close to the target? (could still kill if the bullet lands on another guy). I am aware that cyborgs exist but they're costly and can be disabled by emp.

NOD's ability to move refineries and war factories around the map is a good trait since NOD is all about mobility and speed (has saved me many times) but what built in mechanic does GDI get? Is it the stronger basic defences?

Half of one side of the GDI harvester vanishes when it is in the water.

Is there any difference between the GDI medic and the Globotech medic?

Why does the globotech peacekeeper cost more than the regular grunt?
The only difference i noticed was that they are much stronger when fully promoted.

The Globotech light tank is a shittier NOD Scorpion tank.

What are the exact advantages of the Globotech harvester? I know its in between both NOD's and GDI's but exactly what? My wild guess is that its faster than GDI but better armored than NOD while still having the same load as GDI but without the amphibious ability.

Is the Globotech MRV any better than its counterparts?

Is it just me or does the scorpion tank flak cannon no longer work?

Oil derricks can no longer be captured on Pig of Bays. (have not tested it on other maps)

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Vulture
AA Infantry


Joined: 08 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^Rampastein wrote:
Vulture wrote:
I have an AMD 8-core processor and 8 GB RAM, so if that isn't sufficient I don't know what is.

Tiberian Sun is strictly single-threaded, so you'd get significantly better performance on any modern Intel desktop CPU (including the low-end dual core Haswell-based Pentiums) than with the 8-core AMD FX CPU. The game utilizes only one CPU core.

Now if only this could be changed...

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, the legs are redundant, but we kept them anyway 'cause we like them. Very Happy

Quote:
Laser turrets really suck. The Vulcan tower does a much better job at both at anti tank and anti infantry. I understand that NOD gets the amazing obelisk but still. The laser turrets can dispatch most tier 1 vehicles if they're not in a greater number than 2.


That's not quite true. They're approximately the same, especially against infantry which is what they are designed to be defensive against.

Quote:
Snipers are really strong. A few of them grouped with goliaths are you're good to go (not against air tho) since NOD has inferior tanks and if they try to spam infantry they'll get sniped. I find that snipers already have a slow enough speed and a good price but has anybody thought of the sniper having a possible chance of missing? Sorta how the scatterpack's bullets go everywhere, could it be possible to allow this logic for the sniper's single bullet? Like a 20% chance of missing and the bullet still lands fairly close to the target? (could still kill if the bullet lands on another guy). I am aware that cyborgs exist but they're costly and can be disabled by emp.


One word: Hammerhead.

Quote:
NOD's ability to move refineries and war factories around the map is a good trait since NOD is all about mobility and speed (has saved me many times) but what built in mechanic does GDI get? Is it the stronger basic defences?


EMP / Firestorm walls. Their basic defenses are more effective too, except for the Nod SAM counterpart.

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Half of one side of the GDI harvester vanishes when it is in the water.


Yes, that's because half of it is submerged in water. Laughing Intentional design.

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Is there any difference between the GDI medic and the Globotech medic?


Not at the moment, but GDI's Medic is more of a front-lines unit with additional strength and mobility whereas GloboTech has less armour but heals infantry quicker. This hasn't been implemented yet, but I'll get around to it soon.

Quote:
Why does the globotech peacekeeper cost more than the regular grunt?
The only difference i noticed was that they are much stronger when fully promoted.


Well, that's essentially the design. It's incredibly easy to get cheap units to elite status, most of GloboTech's units have their potential unlocked when they reach veteran status, that's why GloboTech Armories have the ability to promote infantry to elite status.

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The Globotech light tank is a shittier NOD Scorpion tank.


Different veteran/elite bonuses and the GloboTech Light Tank has additional armour while the Scorpion has a slightly stronger weapon.

Quote:
What are the exact advantages of the Globotech harvester? I know its in between both NOD's and GDI's but exactly what? My wild guess is that its faster than GDI but better armored than NOD while still having the same load as GDI but without the amphibious ability.


GDI Harvester - Amphibious, Heavy Armour, High Load Capacity, Average Speed
Nod Harvester - Gains Cloaking Ability if Elite, Average Armour, Average Capacity, High Speed
GloboTech Harvester - Very Cheap, Average Armour, Average Capacity and Average Speed

Quote:
Is the Globotech MRV any better than its counterparts?


There aren't any major differences, just minor ones. GDI's is the strongest, Nod's is the fastest and GT's is average.

Quote:
Is it just me or does the scorpion tank flak cannon no longer work?


The secondary Flak weapon was deemed redundant with the removal of Rocketeers.

Quote:
Oil derricks can no longer be captured on Pig of Bays. (have not tested it on other maps)


This feature was removed not long before the release. Lots of online testing just shows that capturing it is pointless as the value makes it more worthwhile to destroy it instead, so we'd rather keep it as a prop for the time being.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Vulture wrote:
^Rampastein wrote:
Tiberian Sun is strictly single-threaded, so you'd get significantly better performance on any modern Intel desktop CPU (including the low-end dual core Haswell-based Pentiums) than with the 8-core AMD FX CPU. The game utilizes only one CPU core.

Now if only this could be changed...

Impossible. While making use of multiple cores might sound like a trivial thing to implement, in reality it's one of the more difficult areas of programming. Especially it's very hard to design and write game engines that properly make use of multithreading. While it could be possible if we had the source code (still very difficult and unlikely though), hacking multithreaded code in to a RTS game engine that wasn't originally written with multithreading in mind is so complex of a task that no one is ever going to even try it. Even big AAA games have only lately started making proper use of multicore CPUs, and even they usually aren't that great at it (which is why 4-core i5s beat the 8-core FX CPUs in gaming most of the time).

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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
That's not quite true. They're approximately the same, especially against infantry which is what they are designed to be defensive against.


I've tried them both and the vulcan takes 2 shots to kill a basic grunt while the laser takes 4. I also tested a vulcan and laser vs goliath and it seems that by the time the vulcan kills the goliath, the goliath being shot by a laser has a little more than half health. The laser turret could seriously use a slight damage increase.

Quote:
One word: Hammerhead.


Indeed they wreck infantry but you would have to get past, well, lets say all the goliaths first  Twisted Evil
What about the chance of a sniper shot missing like the scatterpack bullets, is it even possible?

Quote:
Well, that's essentially the design. It's incredibly easy to get cheap units to elite status, most of GloboTech's units have their potential unlocked when they reach veteran status, that's why GloboTech Armories have the ability to promote infantry to elite status.


Oh yea, forgot you can do that. Too bad you cant with tanks...   Crying or Very sad

Quote:
The secondary Flak weapon was deemed redundant with the removal of Rocketeers.


Quite frankly, i found the flak weapon useful if i hadn't  built any AA. Plus it prevents orcas from harassing them, just like how the hovvee doesn't get harassed by air. You should keep the feature, even if its redundant, else you would have to remove the cannon #Tongue Its not like the flak cannon being there ruins the game or incredibly breaks the game. Units with special abilities really make games more interesting.

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Vulture
AA Infantry


Joined: 08 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^Rampastein wrote:
Vulture wrote:
^Rampastein wrote:
Tiberian Sun is strictly single-threaded, so you'd get significantly better performance on any modern Intel desktop CPU (including the low-end dual core Haswell-based Pentiums) than with the 8-core AMD FX CPU. The game utilizes only one CPU core.

Now if only this could be changed...

Impossible. While making use of multiple cores might sound like a trivial thing to implement, in reality it's one of the more difficult areas of programming. Especially it's very hard to design and write game engines that properly make use of multithreading. While it could be possible if we had the source code (still very difficult and unlikely though), hacking multithreaded code in to a RTS game engine that wasn't originally written with multithreading in mind is so complex of a task that no one is ever going to even try it. Even big AAA games have only lately started making proper use of multicore CPUs, and even they usually aren't that great at it (which is why 4-core i5s beat the 8-core FX CPUs in gaming most of the time).

I knew it wasn't as trivial as it sounded because multithreading affects the entire game. That alone, even for an idiot at coding like me, implies usually it is a lot of work.

Still, I'm pretty sure more C&C mods could make use of the multithreading coding (as well as things like Ares) so a coder attempting to tackle this mammoth task probably doesn't have to do it alone.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LH_Mouse tried it ages ago, Aas. It wasn't a success, so-to say. The main issue when you go multithread is to properly place syncing points - any misplaced syncing point is immediately a crash if you're lucky and if you aren't then ingame logics go bonkers - and this engine is quite blobby when it comes to such, considering that practically everything happens within a single loop.

I honestly understand what you mean however the effort needed to get this done right is ludicrously high.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Would be already nice if things like the AI pathfinding could be completely separated into its own thread.
This should improve the main game thread performance significantly.
There shouldn't be even that many sync points necessary

one function GetPath in a separate thread

The main thread waiting for paths. If none is received, the unit is simply standing around.
The main thread could then even measure the calculation time for each path and if that takes longer than a certain value, it simply stops pathfinding for that unit for 1-3 seconds.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Even with the separation of a single thing like AI pathfinding into a separate thread you need to take multiple things into consideration. First, the main game loop thread cannot simply wait for paths if you want to see significant benefits; wait time means that the main thread could effectively do the same thing itself. For a performance difference the main thread would need to do something while the other thread handles pathfinding.

Then there's keeping the threads in sync which is the fun part. Imagine that  the main thread is for example handling game logic while another thread is calculating the unit paths. This could easily lead into a situation where the pathfinding thread is calculating the path for one unit while the main thread updates some projectiles, notice that they hit the unit and blow it up. And suddenly we have the pathfinding thread accessing data of an unit that doesn't exist anymore -> boom.

In TS' case such multithreaded calculations would probably be the easiest to perform while the main thread is busy rendering the game world - then there's little risk of such errors (as long as you make sure that the threads don't try to access the same data at the same time).

But this discussion is just theoretical and I highly doubt it will ever happen. There's more serious and less complex issues in the game engine that are still unfixed, like the 100 unit bug and the AI causing reconnection errors.

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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got some feedback for the last NOD mission.


Obviously there is performance issues. I did manage to fix them but it seems that once the NOD bases are built, GDI spams massive amounts of units which then renders the game unplayable due to insane lag.

If you lose a single stealth tank, you pretty much need to start over since you need all 3 later on to kill the defences near the firestorm generator.

You can't get past on the left side of the outpost where it is revealed with your stealth tanks.

To get your stealth tanks past the bridge, you need to sacrifice units. All that really needs to stay alive are the cyborgs and hammerheads.

The orcas at the first outpost are hard to deal with since reaper missiles blow up before hitting them and your stealth tanks can't really afford to lose to much health. (Too bad the scorpion's flak cannon was disabled. Would of really come in handy!)

When the mammoths are first sent out of the main base, the second one gets killed by the firestorm wall (i didn't check if it does it every time).

The north western NOD outpost will get overrun. Don't know if the same happened with the north eastern one since GDI spammed too many units and lagged the game to a snails pace. (looked like they were going to fall shortly)

The first ion cannon strike is very crippling and there is a lack of tiberium near your base.

There is an island of green tiberium near your base with a destructible ramp but the harvesters can't get to it. (seriously, whats the point of that little island then?)

At one point the mammoth production facility should get partially revealed tell you to destroy it to cease mammoth production. (im pretty sure it does tell you to but doesn't tell you where.) A new player or one that hasnt played the last GDI mission will not know and possibly have a hard time finding it.


That's pretty much all the observations I noticed. The mission is a great deal of fun but feels too hard.
It really looks amazing tho, great work on it!

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swirekster
Energy Commando


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: in soviet Poland >:D

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

also, reaper cyborg sucks big time as far as killing flying GDI orcas.

Rockets are exploding in midair, doing almost no damage.

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Q45
Tiberian Fiend


Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Tampere, Finland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your input, PlasmaFyre, I'm glad you enjoyed the mission. Smile

PlasmaFyre wrote:
Obviously there is performance issues. I did manage to fix them but it seems that once the NOD bases are built, GDI spams massive amounts of units which then renders the game unplayable due to insane lag.

We've been working on reducing this lag, and the mission's performance has already improved. The GDI unit spam is indeed a problem that I'll have to take a closer look at.
We'll update the mission in the next few days (I hope).

Quote:
If you lose a single stealth tank, you pretty much need to start over since you need all 3 later on to kill the defences near the firestorm generator.

I indeed made it this way so the mission would be more difficult. You can manage with two, but it is recommended to keep them all alive. Though I could add one more if most people find it too difficult.

Quote:
You can't get past on the left side of the outpost where it is revealed with your stealth tanks.

To get your stealth tanks past the bridge, you need to sacrifice units. All that really needs to stay alive are the cyborgs and hammerheads.

That's the point of this part, create a diversion so your Shadows can move past the GDI outpost. This forces you to consider what units to sacrifice. Personally I like to use the cyborgs in this part. You don't necessarily need to load them into the train if you scout the Banshee Facility first with your Shadows and crush any GDI infantry in there with them.

Quote:
When the mammoths are first sent out of the main base, the second one gets killed by the firestorm wall (i didn't check if it does it every time).

This does indeed happen from time to time if the Mammoths happen to move out of the base with the correct timing. It does look silly, but doesn't really affect the gameplay. There's not much I can do about it unfortunately.

Quote:
The north western NOD outpost will get overrun. Don't know if the same happened with the north eastern one since GDI spammed too many units and lagged the game to a snails pace. (looked like they were going to fall shortly)

I've seen this happen too. It depends on the way the GDI AI behaves, sometimes it manages to completely destroy the Nod outpost. I could spawn an extra defensive team with their MCV to reduce the probability of this problem occurring.

Quote:
The first ion cannon strike is very crippling and there is a lack of tiberium near your base.

That Ion Cannon strike is intended, I wanted it to give that surprise moment that made the player feel vulnerable (and to demonstrate the power of GDI). It's also to make the mission more action-packed.
There's indeed just the one Vinifera crystal in the Banshee Facility, this is to force the player to expand his base and start harvesting from other locations too.

Quote:
There is an island of green tiberium near your base with a destructible ramp but the harvesters can't get to it. (seriously, whats the point of that little island then?)

It's purely for visual reasons. But, if you manage to hijack/build GDI harvesters then those will be able to cross the river and harvest there. (Also, it's not like the tiberium trees chose to grow there so they could/couldn't be harvested. Razz I don't make my maps just to suit the player's needs, I also try to make them look good and natural by adding things like these.)

Quote:
At one point the mammoth production facility should get partially revealed tell you to destroy it to cease mammoth production. (im pretty sure it does tell you to but doesn't tell you where.) A new player or one that hasnt played the last GDI mission will not know and possibly have a hard time finding it.

The Mammoth facility isn't revealed at any point, and you're right, it should be. I'll add this to the mission.

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PlasmaFyre
Medic


Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just saw the new facebook post with the improved and enhanced base props which made me think, why don't we have them in campaign? As of now, im pretty sure we could only enable them via the rule.ini which can take time to change and requires you to update your game when you want to play multiplayer. It may seem useless to add since you usually don't have the time to build nice props and not enough space to make a nice base but I'm sure I'm not the only one that likes to make nice bases in singleplayer.   Cool

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