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More Factions ?
Moderators: Aro, Crimsonum, ErastusMercy, Lin Kuei Ominae, ^Rampastein
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adamstrange
Tiberian Fiend


Joined: 07 Mar 2013

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:00 am    Post subject:  More Factions ? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You have 2 extra factions, Globotech and the TW.

In the next update, these factions should be made playable.

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Bu7loos
Commander


Joined: 27 Jul 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Easier said than done.

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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Likely they will end up like the forgotten in vanilla, it was a nice idea but no one went through with it before EA rushed tiberian sun.
(Also I would love Globotech to be playable(I miss the titan).)

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

adamstrange wrote:
You have 2 extra factions, Globotech and the TW.

In the next update, these factions should be made playable.

If you help getting all the necessary stuff done, sure.
1. Learn 3ds max or Blender (or any other 3d modeling program)
2. Invest 30+ hours for a single building, 5+ hours for a unit
3. Create the necessary 10+ buildings for a single faction
4. Upload the assets and if they are good enough we add them

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Bu7loos
Commander


Joined: 27 Jul 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Invest 30+ hours for a building ? heh no wonder you make high standred buildings LKO Very Happy

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I guess if you're fast you can also get one in less done.
Though i would say
3-6 hours only the design, general shape and some details
1-2 hours for the textures (when you can reuse them like me for the Nod buildings, it can be faster done. Though UVW-mapping, finding the right places for the right texture and some fine tuning still takes time)
3-4 hours for the animations (and not just a spinning fan which is done in 5min)
2-3 hours for the damage version (including animations)
2-3 hours to separate the animations in standalone parts (so they can go in separate SHPs, careful planning is necessary if they overlap each other) the whole process needs to be done twice: for normal and damage frames
1-2 hours for buildup (if you made the building in separate meshes, it can be also done a lot quicker in maybe 0.5 hour)
1-2 hours to finally have separate 3ds max files for: normal frame, damage frame, normal anims, damage anims, buildup (each twice for image and shadow)

0.5-1 hour Rendering all max files into the frames for normal and shadow frames. (depends on the PC's performance)

10min - 20min for some nice high res cameo renders

2-3 hours for the SHP conversion and final fixes and touch ups with SHP Builder (removing bad pixel, filling unwanted holes, replacing bad colors)

All this of course only if you have a very clean imagination how it should be when finished (or if you follow a nice detailed sketch).
As soon as you start trial and error to find good designs, nice anims, good textures and other stuff, the whole process can easily multiply the number of hours.

At least that's my impression and experience how long it takes for a building.

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SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

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X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

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Bu7loos
Commander


Joined: 27 Jul 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LKO thanks for "this". now I at least know making 3Ds art EVEN for an old game engine takes this much.

Reason I am still slacking and lagging of making building its because this eminence hours that it takes -_- (I kinda knew from the back of my head that I was not up to notch at least with you we cannot make structures with inconsistent quality and also I am rather picky as you are [dont get the wrong idea a picky artist is a good artist at least imho] ), and with my current RL ( I have resists for at least 3 subjects -_____- in uni ) I can't even think if can give the time to make a good structure Neutral

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Nolt
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bu7loos wrote:
LKO thanks for "this". now I at least know making 3Ds art EVEN for an old game engine takes this much.

Reason I am still slacking and lagging of making building its because this eminence hours that it takes -_- (I kinda knew from the back of my head that I was not up to notch at least with you we cannot make structures with inconsistent quality and also I am rather picky as you are [dont get the wrong idea a picky artist is a good artist at least imho] ), and with my current RL ( I have resists for at least 3 subjects -_____- in uni ) I can't even think if can give the time to make a good structure Neutral


Don't think about time, just try it, if modelling ends being your thing, then it will end becoming your new hobby and you will enjoy every moment you're modelling something.

LKO, I'm curious, when you speak about an unit, you're talking about something like a mech, or infantry? doing half the animations of a soldier takes me more than 6 hours, so I find it Godlike if you can make one in less.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nolt wrote:
LKO, I'm curious, when you speak about an unit, you're talking about something like a mech, or infantry? doing half the animations of a soldier takes me more than 6 hours, so I find it Godlike if you can make one in less.

yes, a Mech. Though infantry can be done in this time too.
-you don't need a lot or any details on the infantry model, so this can be done in a lot less time than for a bigger resolution mech
-the animations can be done rather quick too, since you just create each anim once and then copy them 7 times. On a mech for 32 facings you have to copy each anim already 31 times (though when you have an exact loop, copying the frames in the frame bar is very fast done)
Then you just let your camera+light system rotate in the right speed around the looped anim.
-infantry anims are usually a lot shorter than vehicle anims, so they are also faster done and don't need a lot of fine tuning. (e.g. on mechs you also have to take care of foot and toe movement, which are not visible on tiny infantry)
-mechs usually need their own hand made bones, while infantry can use the inbuild 3ds max biped bones.

For infantry and mechs/vehicles I also use only 1 single max file with all frames inside (unlike buildings where i have to split it for the anims and damage frames etc),
thus rendering the unit can be done in one go.
This in turn allows instant SHP conversion without any frame reordering (like buildings where you have to get the normal, damage and shadow frames ordered and renamed in a sequence first)

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SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

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Holy_Master
Commander


Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

30+ hours for a single building? Wow that insane! I can't even stand more than 10 hour per asset. :p

but truly you can just tell him the engine not support more than 2 faction without some sort of weird gimmick which could ruin experience than fun. :p

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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Um there are working ways to implement more than two factions (Also a pain to implement from what I have seen.) It just when you have 4 (or more) that you start having game ruining problems. (Plus they know how to edit the executable)

Globotech have most of their buildings. (All they need is a tech center, construction yard, and their current buildings to be more than just tech buildings and actually produce units) they may need a few more units but that is it.

Who are the TW again, are they TI's mutants? There is no buildings for them.

Also some people can make buildings faster if it starts as several voxels which they use the screenshot method of converting to SHPs.

But it would be plausible for Globotech. (though it may take several updates.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Holy_Master wrote:
but truly you can just tell him the engine not support more than 2 faction without some sort of weird gimmick which could ruin experience than fun. :p

Isaac_The_Madd wrote:
It just when you have 4 (or more) that you start having game ruining problems.

You're both wrong. Bittah Commander of The Dawn of the Tiberium Age (with the help of Iran of CnCNet) invented an extremely well working method for adding more than 2 factions into the game. DTA has 4 factions working so smoothly that you wouldn't guess that the game doesn't support them normally.

The only real issue that TI would have with adding GloboTech as a 3rd side is the extra workload. Not only would GloboTech need new buildings/units (and a huge amount of balancing and design work that comes with those), the capturable civilian structures in all multiplayer maps would need to be replaced as well.

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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some of them could be cloned, but the others would need modifications to work (as in Change the front ,and top, of the warehouse clone to look more like a warfactory, and then recode it to be a warfactory)

Seriously are the TW the forgotten or what? If they are the forgotten then you can get away with putting tiberium on buildings from both sides (or just leave them unplayable.)

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Isaac_The_Madd wrote:
If they are the forgotten then you can get away with putting tiberium on buildings from both sides (or just leave them unplayable.)

Such cheap modifications likely wouldn't fit TI's quality standards Wink Unless extremely well done, which is again time consuming.

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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In the end it is it boils down to how much time do you have.

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ErastusMercy
Energy Commando


Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Isaac_The_Madd wrote:
Seriously are the TW the forgotten or what?


If you're referring to the vehicles labelled TW1, those are the Twisted Dawn units.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm confused with what the posters in this thread mean when they say TW. I am going to assume myself that they mean the Twisted Dawn timeline.

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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Twisted Dawn is not a faction but a part of the game timeline, and adamstrange you can play as them set the gamemode to twisted dawn.

Will anything ever be done about the GT titan? Since it is unlikely Globaltech will be playable.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's there for a reason, yes. We have plans, just haven't executed them yet.

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Shinigami
Civilian


Joined: 08 Jul 2014

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:35 am    Post subject: More Factions? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well there's a start of a Globotech build queue there and the structures along with the aircraft, Infantry, and Vehicles. The ONLY thing missing however is a construction yard for them that is very different from Nod & GDI oh and let's not forget about the voices on the Globotech units too, but the question is...what will the AI voice be for Globotech? Nod has CABAL (not sure if that's going to change in the future) and GDI has the EVA unit (again not sure if it will change in the future) so what will it be for Globotech? Those are the only things missing for the super corporation for now :\

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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: More Factions? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shinigami wrote:
Well there's a start of a Globotech build queue there and the structures along with the aircraft, Infantry, and Vehicles. The ONLY thing missing however is a construction yard for them that is very different from Nod & GDI oh and let's not forget about the voices on the Globotech units too, but the question is...what will the AI voice be for Globotech? Nod has CABAL (not sure if that's going to change in the future) and GDI has the EVA unit (again not sure if it will change in the future) so what will it be for Globotech? Those are the only things missing for the super corporation for now :\


Only problem with that is, when globotech was visioned, it was NOT PLANNED to be playable in skirmish and only be a tech faction on the battlefields and campaign element and at best just allow play as them in some missions.

Changing it now due to well... "fan demand" would require to go backwards, not only would globotech need more stuff done for them but then all their tech buildings in existing maps would would need to be replaced with new or player playing as globotech obviously gets nothing new from them by capturing making it redundant. If we do not create new tech buildings there will be whine of globotech getting nothing new from capturing their own tech buildings, which understandable is still gonna be pointed out with demand that we fix the situation...

Whats worse, the current globotech buildings do not have buildups as once again, they weren't planned to be playable so they would all need to be made too adding to nice workload going backwards.

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Shinigami
Civilian


Joined: 08 Jul 2014

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:07 am    Post subject: More Factions? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm...well there's always the Forgotten to work with, after all I see them a lot in most of the maps I play on in skirmish of course there's the issue with the AI voice, infantry, vehicles, aircraft, and structures.
I kinda have an idea of what the Forgotten infantry look like (I see them more than a dozen times to know that) the structures shouldn't be a problem (kinda) but the real problem is the vehicles and aircraft they'll be using as well as having their own commando (if they will be a playable faction) and the AI voice for them and what their build queue would look like, obviously there WILL be some serious work to do to get the Forgotten as a playable faction on Twisted Insurrection and the vehicles and aircraft that they will be using already as well as an idea of what their commando will be like has me stumped ;(

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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The TMF could be done, but really it is a pain to add extra sides and not many people have the time.

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Vulture
AA Infantry


Joined: 08 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree. While I believe the Forgotten should be added, the faction shouldn't really be much more than a capturable Mutant Hovel (like TW 3?) and a small number of infantry units.

Everything else feels kinda redundant with them, except maybe some steampunk vehicle things (which could be buildable with youw own War Factory after you capture the Mutant Hovel). This would however mean seperate vehicles for GDI and Nod, but it seems to be possible (especially since I expect Forgotten vehicles to be based on TD-era vehicles).

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