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Revealing Dawn of the Tiberium Age Version 1.15
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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject:  Revealing Dawn of the Tiberium Age Version 1.15 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread



We haven't posted any news for 5 months. That has lead to some fans lately asking us whether we're dead or alive. But if you're a long-time follower of DTA, you probably know that our radio silence usually means that we're working on something large - something awesome that we haven't wanted to reveal yet.

This is it. This is the official announcement for our upcoming version 1.15 of Dawn of the Tiberium Age.



Like in our previous major releases, a star of this release is going to be the client. In fact, I've entirely re-written the client. While the previous client worked, it wasn't as smooth to use as it could've been, and especially in online play it had this tendency to crash occasionally. I also wasn't happy with the quality of the client's graphics.

Along with the re-write, the new client has a more advanced technological base. While the previous clients used the Win95-era Windows Forms to display their graphics, the new client uses DirectX11 (OpenGL if you're on XP or Mac/Linux). This enables us to make better graphics and also special effects, like fade effects for opening and closing windows.



These changes make the client very smooth and pleasant to use compared to the old client. All sub-windows now open in less than a millisecond without any of the flickering that the old client displayed. We've also improved the UI functionally. As examples of this, the statistics window now has an improved layout, and the map preview in the Skirmish and CnCNet/LAN game lobbies can now be interacted with.

Another focus of the re-write has been stability. The goal is that the client should never crash in use. From internal testing I can say that we're pretty close to that goal.



We've always focused heavily on the CnCNet online gaming experience, and with the new client it's also getting improvements:

  • We've added an option that makes it possible to connect to CnCNet automatically when you launch DTA, and stay connected through your session
  • Private messages don't open a separate window anymore, but are handled by a Steam-inspired overlay that informs you of new PMs and allows you to respond quickly
  • Instead of opening separate windows for the Game Lobby and CnCNet Lobby, the client now runs in one window with a top bar that allows you to switch between the lobbies (and view private messages). This setup is much more convenient and closer to RTS gaming standards than the old one where you had to manage multiple different windows
  • Support for a friend list as well as an ignore list have been added






Now, the client is just an interface for accessing the game. The "game" part of DTA 1.15 will be bigger and better as well; there will be new maps (with new terrain!) for regular multiplayer, co-op, as well as singleplayer. We've only revealed two of these maps so far, but there are many more to come. Like always, we've also improved the balance between our 4 factions. More of these improvements and additions will be detailed in a later news post and other future updates.

DTA 1.15 will be released at the end of the summer. Until then, stay tuned for more information!


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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

call me when the chinook has spinning rotors.

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Darkstorm
Commander


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well see ya later then. Guess he won't be coming back, thankfully.

Nice update ramp. I'm not too crazy about the new logo but it's still pretty cool. Because it seems obligatory, any chance DTA will ever go over to ORA? I mean it wouldn't be an easy thing and ORA's still lacking many good TS features and can feel clunky at times but it's a very nice platform given the customizability. Although disabling the target lines and left-click improvements have made the engine more comfortable to play with. The only main issue I notice these days that's a core  issue would be that TS looks like it's too slow.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Switching to the OpenRA engine is a possibility, but unlikely in the near future. We'll evaluate that possibility once OpenRA has got their TS mod out of beta and implemented some other things. Tiberian Sun and especially our CnCNet build of Tiberian Sun still has many features that OpenRA lacks or does worse.

There's also a core issue with OpenRA that the basic unit and projectile movement and other behaviour is so different that it takes away from the classic C&C feel for me and other staff members.

Also, one of the biggest challenges of a OpenRA port would be our current client and porting our existing ~110 multiplayer maps and 20-something singleplayer maps to OpenRA.

So, we might switch to OpenRA one day (that isn't coming soon), or we might also stay with the TS engine forever. Time will tell.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Graphically, the client looks very nice. The smooth, high-res Red Alert main menu style is very well done (albeit it looks a little flat, but that's ok).

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Darkstorm
Commander


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The client looks great and the TS client in general has done a lot to extend TS modding I feel.

As to unit and projectile movement in ORA. Not sure quite what you mean there. I guess there are very small differences that would pop-up but I haven't compared the two really. If you turn off the unit lines and turn on left-click orders, I feel right at home but I guess that's just me. Either way, there is definitely something to be said about porting over the 20+ singleplayer missions since they'd have to be rescripted but maps can be converted automatically I believe.

Either way, I completely understand and would probably be there with you. A migration over to ORA would be a huge change. I'm just wishing to see what could be done in the same setting without being handicapped by the restrictions of the TS engine. Maybe someday though. My main wish is to see that awesome battleship in action with all three turrets.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The cruiser can already use all 3 turrets when you deploy it.

Projectile and especially unit movement really do look very different in OpenRA. It's also not just that it looks different from TD, RA1 or TS, but to me the movement often just looks plain wrong, even without comparing it to the originals.
If I'm honest, this actually bugs me enough to make me reluctant to port DTA to OpenRA, even if it did have all necessary features that we need.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Darkstorm wrote:
As to unit and projectile movement in ORA. Not sure quite what you mean there. I guess there are very small differences that would pop-up but I haven't compared the two really.

The movement thing has been confirmed by pchote of OpenRA: http://ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=544819#544819

Darkstorm wrote:
I'm just wishing to see what could be done in the same setting without being handicapped by the restrictions of the TS engine.

I'd love to have some of the limitations lifted too. Having additional support powers and the Chonosphere and Iron Curtain in would be really cool, as well as gap generators and GPS. The Allies right now feel somewhat stripped of their technology in DTA.

As Bittah said, the Cruiser already works though. That it needs to deploy isn't a bad thing, because it'd be overpowered if it could use all its 3 cannons on the move #Tongue

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Darkstorm
Commander


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I figured it used it's own pathfinding I just was saying I don't really notice it being too off from the original games but to be honest I haven't really payed attention. So yeah, I'll definitely acknowledge there being a difference, I just don't feel like it has a big effect but that's just for me I guess.

As for the battleship, the deploying is really kind of a hacky workaround TBH. And I realize the balance issues with it firing all three guns while being able to move. I'm just one of those people that loves crazy things like that though.

Well it's all good the way it is for damn sure. I just thought it would be cool to see the mod's premise, more or less, fully realized. Maybe some other developer could come along and make an officially sponsored port so that we could have the best of both worlds. I guess that'd split the playerbase somewhat though.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If we were satisfied enough with a port that we'd "sponsor" it, we'd replace the TS build with it.

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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

honestly this should be on red alert 2 game engine. tibsun engien only good ifyou want carryalls and subterranean units which this mod dont have.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This mod has both carryalls and subterranean units.

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Matthias M.
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bittah Commander wrote:
Projectile and especially unit movement really do look very different in OpenRA. It's also not just that it looks different from TD, RA1 or TS, but to me the movement often just looks plain wrong, even without comparing it to the originals.
If I'm honest, this actually bugs me enough to make me reluctant to port DTA to OpenRA, even if it did have all necessary features that we need.


Do you mean https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/3288 when you say that unit movement is "wrong"?

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


_________________
"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, Reaperrr explains it well in the issue Graion linked to.

I'm not entirely certain whether frame rates are involved or not, but it was an assumption on my part because I notice a somewhat similar odd movement behavior in TS when I give a unit a very high speed and then watch it move at a low game speed. It's very well possible that just fixing the issues that Reaperrr brought up is already enough though.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bittah, could you just grab the latest OpenRA release, pick the fastest game speed on a skirmish map, and play/spectate a match? Because that would actually do tell if frame rates are involved. I do assume they are.

Besides, OmegaBolt also complained to me some weeks ago that he finds projectile movement jarring, because of the low engine frame rates.

Note that OpenRA has a different render and tick frame rate: optimally the default game renders 60 FPS, but only runs in 25 FPS, so the artwork frame rate and the engine frame rate will intentionally differ. This is the main reason why OpenRA feels smooth - in the default mods the graphics are updated a lot faster than engine-related changes (and positions/facings are changed by the engine ofc).

On the other hand, using large terrain/voxels have a high chance to slow down render performance compared to ticking, losing this smoothness first, but as long as both frame rates can keep up with the intended game speed, everything's fine though.

Enginelag gives you the usual slow game feel, but renderlag gives you really, really sluggish controls.

_________________
"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

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Iran
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 23 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've noticed how the flag on Barracks animates a lot faster in OpenRA than in in the C&C games.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I tried the latest public build and unit rotation itself appears to look the same on the medium and fastest game speeds.

Unit movement in general does indeed look a bit choppy though, but it appears to be even more noticeable on the medium game speed. On fastest it just sort of looks like some frames are skipped inconsistently, while on medium it's more like it's dropping every other frame. You can already notice this if you simply keep looking at the Medium Tanks you see at the top of the Red Alert mod's main menu.
This is probably indeed because of the low frame rate.

The choppy unit movement is even more noticeable in the Rewire mod.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


_________________
"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So even though the game renders at 25 FPS, the game itself actually has a lower tick rate than that?
If the trick rate remains the same anyhow and the current problem will be circumvented via predictions, wouldn't it technically also be doable to increase the frame rate to 50 or 60 FPS?

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The game renders at 60 but has a lower tick rate of 25 on normal speed. Yes, this is controllable via the game speed which is in the mod's own yaml. Yes, it technically could be, but it might end up too much for mid-end/low-end PCs (although render is more likely to lag before tick from my tests).

_________________
"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

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Matthias M.
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


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